Curse

Magikarp · Nov 15, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniffy

Unless it's their goal to convert us all to Deadly Arts sins....

shhh... just between you and me...

............ i think they are

ensoriki · Nov 15, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

shhh... just between you and me...

............ i think they are

.....can I be in on the secret =P?

Lol look at my builds thing (even if you think they suck lol)

None of em were actually affected by the nerf >.> but when I make a DM CS build >.> I find myself complaining about horns...

Bobby2 · Nov 15, 2007, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

Actually I think you confused yourself.

Person A: X skill is overpowered.

Person B: Why is X overpowered?

Person A: Because it was too damaging with the knockdown.

Person B: But the knockdown is conditional.

Person A: But the condition is so easily met that it is non-existent.

Nice try, but no. Kaida started out saying 'it should have been ...-... damage range', then goes off to rant about the KD condition. Whether you KD with it or not, the damage on HotO is the same.

The KD condition has been left as is, the damage is nerfed. Now if he would have explained to me why he felt the damage on HotO was too high, I'd be open to arguments. Instead, the cheeky MM spews nonsense. Let ANet nerf Dark Bond and you -might- have an idea of the impact this is going to have on the Sin class.

ensoriki · Nov 15, 2007, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Nice try, but no. Kaida started out saying 'it should have been ...-... damage range', then goes off to rant about the KD condition. Whether you KD with it or not, the damage on HotO is the same.

The KD condition has been left as is, the damage is nerfed. Now if he would have explained to me why he felt the damage on HotO was too high, I'd be open to arguments. Instead, the cheeky MM spews nonsense. Let ANet nerf Dark Bond and you -might- have an idea of the impact this is going to have on the Sin class.

How about they nerf, RoF >.>

RoF isn't necessary 100% of the time, its not an imbalanced skill (as far as I can tell)

But alot of monks use it.

Horns isn't necessary 100% of the time, its not an imbalanced skill (as far as I can tell) but alot of sin's use it, alot of assassin's have a template with horns of the ox in it, and not just an SP sin template.

Maybe RoF is too strong an example....but theres not much to compare it to.

Omniclasm · Nov 15, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Nice try, but no. Kaida started out saying 'it should have been ...-... damage range', then goes off to rant about the KD condition. Whether you KD with it or not, the damage on HotO is the same.

The KD condition has been left as is, the damage is nerfed. Now if he would have explained to me why he felt the damage on HotO was too high, I'd be open to arguments. Instead, the cheeky MM spews nonsense. Let ANet nerf Dark Bond and you -might- have an idea of the impact this is going to have on the Sin class.

Except he said the damage was to high.

Then he responded to people trying to justify the damage because the knockdown is conditional.

craigrs84 · Nov 15, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21

The condition on HoTo is not necessarily a given. Everyone quit saying its basically unconditional just because we can shadow step. If the enemy clumps together its useless. Sometimes people dont do stupid things. You can't reliably count on it to do an extended chain where you tie in say falling spider. It's just not always viable, and here's the thing, when it isn't viable, my chain's broken, and I can't just punch my other attack skill like a warrior to make up for it.

Kaida the Heartless · Nov 15, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Nice try, but no. Kaida started out saying 'it should have been ...-... damage range', then goes off to rant about the KD condition. Whether you KD with it or not, the damage on HotO is the same.

The KD condition has been left as is, the damage is nerfed. Now if he would have explained to me why he felt the damage on HotO was too high, I'd be open to arguments. Instead, the cheeky MM spews nonsense. Let ANet nerf Dark Bond and you -might- have an idea of the impact this is going to have on the Sin class.

Actually they are correct.

I mean that the skill was too overpowered before the nerf. It was overpowered because it was used mostly (from my own experience) in Shadow Prison builds, which means you could teleport onto a foe who was nowhere near anyone else, and they couldn't move into range within time (66% slow), so the knockdown always worked.

Before the nerf, HotO had:
1. Good Damage
2. Easy to meet KD condition
3. Knockdown during instagib combo

Now the skill has:
1. Easy to meet KD condition
2. Knockdown during instagib combo

A bit more fair, imho. If you wan't your knockdown, now you have to sacrifice a bit of damage to get it. It's only fair.

I also stated that the damage could be a bit higher than they mentioned, but it still needed to be knocked a bit.

If you expect to have your HotO reverted, ask the Devs to hit tigerstance instead. This will make it so that you cannot activate your entire combo while your foe is defensless on the floor.

Also, I am only monk secondary for a nice Hardres (if I even need one), silly. I run curses. :]

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigrs84

The condition on HoTo is not necessarily a given. Everyone quit saying its basically unconditional just because we can shadow step. If the enemy clumps together its useless. Sometimes people dont do stupid things. You can't reliably count on it to do an extended chain where you tie in say falling spider. It's just not always viable, and here's the thing, when it isn't viable, my chain's broken, and I can't just punch my other attack skill like a warrior to make up for it.

Most enemies won't clump together. There are too many threats that outweigh the damage from a sin to be able to clump safely. Many classes have some really devastating AoE. Clumping together also means you can't kite from your said Warrior while he bashes your face in. Therefore, you should at least find a foe somewhere on the battlefield that isn't standing around someone. Punish them instead of wrecking your chain on a group.

BlackSephir · Nov 15, 2007, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Used mostly by SP sins- cool, but if you haven't noticed BLS nerf, SP sins are dead. What's the point on nerfing other skills like HoTO.

*Ding Ding* Funny GW facts.
HoTO was fine til this update- it's then when people realized how omg ovarpawored!1 it was.

Quote:

If you expect to have your HotO reverted, ask the Devs to hit tigerstance instead.

I was into this

Quote:

Elite Hex Spell. Shadow Step to target foe. For 1...8...10 seconds, that foe moves 66% slower. All of your stances are disabled for 10...5...4 seconds. If you are in a stance while using this skill, this skill fails.

Why wouldn't this work?

I'm sick of nerfing all other assa skills but problematic ones, i.e. SP and DP

fireflyry · Nov 15, 2007, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

If you expect to have your HotO reverted, ask the Devs to hit tigerstance instead.

/votes

I'm not 100% against the nerf to HotH, it's obviously been made for a reason, but +11 damage at 15 DM for a dual is a joke, regardless of the knockdown imo.

Edit:The obvious flak from most people seems to be simple.Many of us abhore cookie cutter builds and if the devs want SP out of the game fine but there are much better ways to go about it without effecting players like me who used the skills in everything but the SP build.

Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems like a bad fix to counter one abused build that many of us Sin mains hate as much as anyone else yet it has effected the whole class and the majority of none SP players.

Sloppy.

Kaida the Heartless · Nov 15, 2007, 07:25 AM // 07:25

I suggested throwing exhaustion onto Shadow Prison. But I know why Izzy doesn't want to... :] Sry,had to go there!

This would require them to bring more Energy Runes (to be able to finish thier combos) and less Survivor Runes, which means they can be taken out much easier, but still pack a really strong punch.

At the same time, I like the Lotus change since it promotes more L+O+D and less O+D+O+D.

fireflyry · Nov 15, 2007, 08:00 AM // 08:00

All this update has done, from what I've seen so far, has increased the amount of A/Mo's running DA builds ten-fold, at least in AB which is my main PvP fix.

Urrrggghhh.

I seriously hope they fix it....soon.

Edit:Oh and to add the change to BLS does anything but promote L-O-D.All it does is make the skill useless.Seriously who needs e-management as a lead at 10 cost and 12 recharge and who the heck would use such a skill as a lead in the first place?

All it's done is ruined the skill and put it in the trash can when compared to other superior and more effective, not to mention better suited, leads apart from the select few who may find a place for it.As a lead...it's garbage imo and seldomly fits in the chain mechanic as e-return anymore.

Saphatorael · Nov 15, 2007, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

At the same time, I like the Lotus change since it promotes more L+O+D and less O+D+O+D.

Thing is, L+O+D chains just suck. Or you're forced to do a weird combo, ranging from L+L+O+D, L+O+O+D, L+O+D+O, or L+O+D+L. Or just like the old-school AoD sin, 5 skills. And I don't consider that viable due to the nature of it so easily being interrupted.

So far I've only found 1 L+O+D combo that actually killed something, and it needed a Conjure X with it. Haven't tried it yet since the Conjure 'fix'.
Well, and there was that one L+L+O+D build I also ran once, wasn't that great either.

fireflyry · Nov 15, 2007, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphatorael

Thing is, L+O+D chains just suck. Or you're forced to do a weird combo, ranging from L+L+O+D, L+O+O+D, L+O+D+O, or L+O+D+L. Or just like the old-school AoD sin, 5 skills. And I don't consider that viable due to the nature of it so easily being interrupted.

QFT.

If this new update was meant to solve that it = mega fail.

ensoriki · Nov 15, 2007, 11:56 AM // 11:56

This is silly but I did it way back (I bet most of you have too)
Illusion of Weakness, Desperate Strike Wild Strike Twisting fangs
It doesn't exactly suck >.> But its not wonderful

Anyways why am I defending L-O-D right now >.> needs moar buff.

Yanman.be · Nov 15, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Make SP a stance

ensoriki · Nov 15, 2007, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Make SP a stance

lol =P

but uh >.>
ummm
uh ....
Siphon speed+ Shadow step + snare >.>
Siphon speed takes exposes spot >.>

see that?

Bowstring Badass · Nov 15, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Only thing that affects me really is the HoToand BLS(lead now wtf....). Guess I will just run Death Blossom instead of HoTo for my ab combo. [skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill][skill]shock[/skill][skill]falling spider[/skill][skill]death blossom[/skill][skill]impale[/skill][skill]dash[/skill][skill]shadow refuge[/skill]

fireflyry · Nov 15, 2007, 01:23 PM // 13:23

I run a different combo but posting new builds...at least for me.....is not the point.

I'm getting the feeling that they want Sins to die to prep for GW2.

Like fully....die.

Well RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO ya Anet....Sin is the only reason you have had my business post Factions.

Kill it...cool...I'm off to another game.

Such is life.Take care.

Cloud5646 · Nov 15, 2007, 01:54 PM // 13:54

This was the wrost planned nerf ever... ruined all my builds.
It was mainly to fix the hero battles arenas but it f***up alot of builds and forms of pvp and pve as well... that's not something smart...
I'm in favor of bannin SP build from HB and revert all the skill nerfs...

If they don't revert the changes after the weekend I'm quiting too

Saphatorael · Nov 15, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud5646

This was the wrost planned nerf ever... ruined all my builds.
It was mainly to fix the hero battles arenas but it f***up alot of builds and forms of pvp and pve as well... that's not something smart...
I'm in favor of bannin SP build from HB and revert all the skill nerfs...

If they don't revert the changes after the weekend I'm quiting too

... just make another build?